ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

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OtherRick
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ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by OtherRick »

I am really a fan of the new way that ORSA works. I like that I no longer have to search desperately for a resource that no other players has started extracting yet, I love the balance it adds for named resources, and I think it has been a very good change overall.

Caveat: certain specific resources that are very commonly used have become targetted to the point where they are borderline unavailable. Two common examples of such resources are Dyzalithium Fuel and Embaron. When I find one such resource available on a planet, it usually has 4+ Extractors on it and expires very rapidly. This actually makes it even more challenging to find those resources than before the changes.

Suggestion: To alleviate the strain on these high-demand resources, there should be either diminishing returns when placing more than one extractor on the same resource, or alternatively a limit of one extractor per person on a given resource.

Either change would allow a resource to expire less rapidly, allowing more players to access these resources. It would discourage (or eliminate) dumping 6+ extractors on Dyz fuel whenever you find it, and would help players who do not wish to use the GBM to accomplish their own resource acquisition by the sweat of their own brow.

Thoughts?
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Coops
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by Coops »

When we were first testing (my self and the staff) we did chat about some kind of Feedback 'resonance' that we might want to add depending on how things went. So similar in the way you suggested a diminishing return the more you deploy on a single spot.

But the flip side is that some resource are meant to be rare and hard to get hold off. On numerous occasions in the last few months when fellow players has asked 'Coops' is that all one player on the Emby - A quick look showed 9+ different players all mining the same spot. So yes the resource will tap out quickly and yes that in itself makes it a rare resource.

The other side of this conversation is a more delicate one and that's to do with the MOUNTAINS of resources (like Emby) in players stores. I've seen players in chat moaning they cant find any and are sat on a personal mountain of it... Now as I say a delicate topic and what one man calls enough and another calls a mountain may differ. A quick check this morning Emby sits at 34,349,758 and Dyzalithium at 72,011,569. That's from players active in the last 30 days.

Also I'd draw attention to the fact in the rare items list IE most to least on the server Emby sits at 627 and Dyzalithium sits at 646 out of 668 resources. So in real terms it may be hard to obtain without a lot of effort but its sure NOT rare and plenty of it exists on the server. So ATM I'm holding off on any kind of changes.

Coops

P.S this is an open observation and rounded off to try explain it from all the angles. I DO understand players have a different view (especially when you want to build something and don't have the resources. But that's why we created the GBM.
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Ophelia
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by Ophelia »

Thank you for posting this OtherRick. I have thought about this for some time and I am not sure how to approach it.

I feel that the new system isn't fair, but I can't really say why. I have tried putting one, two and three extractors on the same spawn to no avail. I cannot even get one hopper full with three combined.

It seems to me, that some players get more than the rest of us.

I am no a fan of the new system, and I think your suggestion would even out the playing field.

Ophelia
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MarcSp
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by MarcSp »

Dyza and Embaron are nowhere near any kind of rare resource. Where are you seeing these concentrations?
I just swung thru the central systems and as of Oct 3 02:30GT, I saw
Messor/Descarte has 1 extractor on dyza.
Welling/Fieron has 2 on dyza.
Georgetown/Feris has 2 on dyza. All with hundreds of hours remaining.
The only crowded site was Meltram/Ethan, with 5 on dyza. But even with 5, it shows 171 hours left to expire (thats 7 days).
Once you get away from the anchor points, like the outer ring, there are Orsa sites almost fully empty:
Trickers Landing/Vesesia 0 on dyza. Mity/Undadarnya has 0.
Go out into the Furnace - there are ORSA sites that are TOTALLY empty, you get the whole ORSA site to yourself.

Now I agree the reduction in extraction rates does hurt a bit, and extractors filling hoppers is rare now, but the
ability to get the really rare named-resources is a wonderful enhancement. Under the old system, some of those
sites (Plasteel-Domat) would spawn ONE site per week. And players would camp out on that planet at spawn time to try
to grab it for the week. At least those monopolies are gone now, thats a great improvement.
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OtherRick
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by OtherRick »

My experience may have been a bit skewed based on the places I usually go. I've only just recently been to the expanse for the first time, but I can see how embaron would be a HUGE bottleneck to getting past the first three expanse systems (the embaron part of the comment was largely included for another player's benefit, who has essentially sworn off ever entering the expanse due to this exact difficulty). However, I'd be lying if I didn't say that I looked in a lot of places to find dyz fuel spawns, and only occasionally found one or two, always with lots (5+) of extractors in place.

Vosay, Angusti, Warloro, Tornsul, Oengo, Kalerd, Mostoni, Hathom, Thraeg, central sphere, every system between Blake and Reaper, (Beagle and side-track systems included), every system between Lexington and Mork. There's a fair number of "less-travelled" systems included in that list, so it isn't as though this experience isn't a reasonable sample.

As for travelling WAY out of the way to find the resource as MarcSp suggests... I suppose that could be managed. I don't like the idea of spending 200+ fuel for a chance at finding a less-populated spawn, but you're not wrong in saying that it could be done that way.
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MarcSp
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by MarcSp »

Not sure what you are looking at, but I don't think its dyza spawns.

From a quick tour thru VP and Furnace (10/04 0340GT)
UtopiaII/Tornsul - 1 dyza with 0 extractors,
Valkima/Warloro - 1 dyza with 0 extr
Turroth/Vosay, 1 dyza with 3 extr and 55 hours life remaining
Angels Rest/Vosay, 1 dyza, 0 extr
Edana/Mostony - 1 dyza, 1 extr

and out in furnace:
Thrym/Lexington - 1 dyza with 14 extractors, and 50 hours remaining
Vulpeca/Amun - 1 dyza, 0 extr
New Terra/Korey- 1 dyza, 0 extr
Fabian/Beagle - 1 dyza, 0 extr

So there is dyza out there. Not sure whats happening in Thrym, I suspect thats a single player draining that site,
but there is dyza along your route. And yes, dyza is kinda rare in VP and Furnace, as historically its normally found
in sphere.

As for Embaron, you don't need it for the first 3 systems, and its not available there anyway. You do need it for
the ADV factories making survey drones, but you can make drones the old fashioned way without embaron. Under this new
system, embaron is now MORE accessible than before. In the old days, players were camping on those sites waiting for the weekly
refresh, and grabbing the 1 or 2 spawns, holding back everyone else.

As for going out to the outer rim, that is no kind of major effort. Its three jumps from kelsey to undady, its four jumps
from kelsey to phidarin. For someone jumping to Blake/Reaper, 200 fuel should be nothing. I've noticed. the majority of
players tend to camp out around the Anchor Systems, but if you go three-four jumps out, those systems tend to be vacant.
Well maybe not in Sphere, but everywhere else. Its good to get away from the crowds sometimes.
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MarcSp
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by MarcSp »

I will just add, I was not a fan of these changes when they were first announced.
But now after working under these new rules for a while, I have to admit it has opened up access to rare spawns a lot.
So overall an good improvement to the game.
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Coops
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by Coops »

/me still reading and pondering this one. Had lengthy chat with the staff early part of the week. So not a 'closed' topic for me.

Coops
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Akkamaddi
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by Akkamaddi »

I'm actually torn. I do understand that it makes resources more valuable. Dark Matter resources are supposed to be ultra-rare, but everyone has a dozen harvesters. On the other hand, I'm having issues keeping both my alien factories and harvesters running.

Perhaps Terranor pods could actually create more resources, and not just pull resources faster?
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MarcSp
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Re: ORSA Extractors:Required Resource Edition

Post by MarcSp »

Just wanted to point out the obvious again:

The July Orsa change was put in to nerf Orsa extraction. Coops said so in his post, he wanted
to "foster competition" for resources, and combat the "drop+forget tactic" with extractors. Well, what was to be a mild
whack of the bash stick, instead is more of a spiked war hammer to the back of the players heads.
OtherRicks complaint (quick expiration of spawns) is a direct and expected result of that policy.
His suggested remedies (diminishing returns, and limit 1 extr per spawn) will only make things worse (for the players),
but might actually help with the stated goals of nerfing Orsa. So I am opposed to these remedies on that basis.
I think this reduction of Orsa is enough for now.

Longer term, if the goal is reduction of hoarding, and reduction of the mountains of resources, then more drastic
changes will need to be made. There are just too many inputs dropping resources on the players like raindrops, and
not enough drains taking stuff out of the game. I'm talking about ship destruction, gear wear+tear and destruction,
ongoing maintenance costs, perhaps taxes, higher travel costs - gate fees, docking fees,etc. This will cause
massive screaming and butt pain, to be sure, but the current drains are simply unable to keep up with the flow.
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